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[英国]連威爾斯都開始鬧獨立了 [复制链接]

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只看楼主 正序阅读 0 发表于: 2019-09-01
Waking the dragon: Inside the growing movement for Welsh independence
The village sacrificed to give water to the English. Subversive graffiti springing up across the countryside. Gareth Bale. They’re all contributing to support for the Welsh nation to go it alone, reports Colin Drury

The Independent
Graffiti near Aberystwyth that reads, in English, ‘Remember Tryweryn’ – where a village was sunk for English water

It was on a bitterly cold night in the winter of 1963 that Owain Williams committed an act of rebellion never before known in the UK. He detonated a bomb in the name of Welsh independence. He was in his twenties back then, idealistic and furious that a Meirionnydd village was to be drowned so a reservoir could be built for Liverpool, an English city 70 miles away.

“An entire community forced to leave their homes for something no one in Wales wanted or benefited from,” the 85-year-old, of Pwllheli, says today. “It was outrageous.”

Widespread protests had been held against the proposed flooding. Thousands travelled to Liverpool to picket the town hall. All but one Welsh MP voted against the plan in parliament. But the Tory government waved it through anyway. “It proved we had no democratic voice,” says Williams, now a local councillor. “All we had left was action.”

So, on the blizzard-hit night of 10 February, he and two accomplices, student Emyr Llewelyn and ex-RAF man John Jones, exploded a 5lb bomb at the site. The 3am blast – timed so that no one would be hurt – destroyed a crucial electrical transistor and halted construction of a major dam. Soon after, Williams and Jones blew up a pylon too.

The trio – calling themselves the Movement for the Defence of Wales – hoped the action would spark a campaign of civil disobedience that would kickstart a conversation about self-determination. But it did not. Police caught the three within weeks. Williams and Llewelyn were imprisoned for a year, while Jones was put on probation.

I felt, as a nation, we’d been in a slumber for 400 years of English rule and we needed waking up. But perhaps people weren’t ready
Significantly, while they were lauded by many as freedom fighters, no one joined their cause. No other bombs were planted. The village, Capel Celyn, was drowned as planned; the reservoir built. It remains in use today. “I felt, as a nation, we’d been in a slumber for 400 years of English rule and we needed waking up,” says Williams, who sits on Gwynedd County Council. “But perhaps people weren’t ready.”

The grandfather-of-10 is speaking to The Independent, 56 years on, in the nearby town of Caernarfon where, as we talk, 6,000 people are gathering for what will later be hailed as the largest pro-independence rally in the country’s modern history. As he looks at the flag-waving crowd, he smiles: “Maybe we’re ready now.”

That support for Welsh independence is on the rise in 2019 seems indisputable. Brexit, Boris and the possible breakaway of Scotland, as well as grassroots social media campaigns, have all played their part in bringing self-determination – so-called indy-curiousness – to the fore. When Gordon Brown made headlines this month by saying the UK was “sleepwalking into oblivion”, many analysts seemed to think he was referring only to a possible Scottish separation. But he himself made explicit his belief that breakaway forces were growing in both Wales and Northern Ireland too.

Polls that have traditionally shown less than 10 per cent support for Cardiff rule are beginning to spike as high as 28. Several community councils have already pledged their support to the idea. Just last month Gwynedd County Council, run by Plaid Cymru, became the country’s first major authority to officially come out in favour of independence.

“Given the chaos in Westminster,” leader Dyfrig Siencyn said, “I think there’s a feeling that surely we can do better ourselves.”

In the Welsh Assembly, meanwhile, first minister Mark Drakeford, whose Labour Party officially rejects independence, has suggested his support for the union is not “unconditional”; while the new leader of Plaid Cymru, Adam Price, has for the first time in the party’s history made self-determination not just an aspiration but a timetabled target. Vote PC, he says, and Wales will have a referendum on becoming a sovereign state by 2030.

Crucially, anecdotal evidence suggests this rising support appears to be coming not just from its traditional heartlands – the Welsh-speaking north – but swathes of English-speaking areas too. “There is a conversation happening in a way that just wouldn’t have happened in past generations,” says Richard Wyn Jones, director of the Wales Governance Centre at Cardiff University. “Where that will lead, there are so many variables, it’s impossible to predict. But undeniably, this is being talked about and debated.”

At the rally in Caernarfon – a colourful inclusive march-and-speeches-affair – one attendee puts it another way. “Wales has been the kid living in the parent’s basement for the last four centuries,” Cennydd Tudor, a 30-year-old software developer from Neath, says. “It’s time we moved out. It’s time we made our own way in the world.”

There is a joke in Welsh politics that there should be a statue of Margaret Thatcher outside the Senedd in Cardiff Bay. Counter-intuitive it may be, but without this most ferocious of unionist prime ministers it’s entirely possible Wales would never have voted for devolution in 1997 – and almost certainly would not now be talking about independence.

In 1979, when the country was first offered a referendum on having its own assembly, it rejected the proposal by 80 per cent to 20. Yet, by the time Tony Blair offered a similar deal 18 years later, opinion had shifted: this time the country voted, albeit by the slimmest of margins, in favour. What caused such a shift was, in no small part, down to Thatcher’s premiership.

“Her policies laid waste to our steel and coal mining industries – destroyed lives and communities – just as she did in northern England too,” says Sion Jobbins, founder and chair of the Yes Cymru campaign group and a co-organiser of the Caernarfon rally. “But here, this is a country that has never voted Tory in its history, so to have this destruction imposed, it was a real turning point for a lot of people. There was a shift in the national mood that will never go back.”

Indeed, it is probably no coincidence that Thatcher’s rule coincided with the so-called Meibion Glyndwr arson attacks where dozens of English-owned properties in Wales were set alight by protesters apparently concerned their communities were becoming holiday villages for the newly yuppie rich. Either way, says Jobbins, a similar change in national mood is happening again following nine years of UK-wide, Conservative-led austerity.

£13.7bn
more of public money spent on Wales than tax collected

Funding for public services here has been among the hardest hit in the UK. So deep has it gone that spending will not reach pre-austerity levels until 2023 at the earliest.

“The severity has been shocking,” says Jobbins, a 51-year-old educational coordinator of Aberystwyth who officially set up YC in 2016. “And, yet again, this is being forced on to people here by a government they did not vote for.”

Such cuts, indy supporters argue, follow decades of under-investment in infrastructure. Pertinently, they point out that this may be the only place in Europe where to get from the south to the north by train, you actually have to leave the country – going via Shrewsbury in England. There are no motorways here either, save a small stretch of the London-bound M4. Major projects, including the Swansea Bay tidal lagoon, have repeatedly been axed by Westminster – while schemes such as Crossrail and HS2 (which government reports show could actually harm Wales) have been given the green light.

Now, the ascent of Boris Johnson appears to have further added to the perception that England is a foreign and self-interested land. “What has Wales to do with yet another Eton boy?” asks Jobbins. He thinks about it all for a moment and then presents a question which, he reckons, is becoming ever more pertinent. “People are wondering,” he says, “what exactly do we get out of this union?”

The answer, at its crudest, might be a vast amount of English money. Wales is a huge net beneficiary of UK spending. It takes from the Treasury pot a far greater amount than it ever puts in. Last year alone, there was £13.7bn more spent in Wales than tax collected. In last October’s budget, the country was promised another £550m on top of that.

Jeremy Corbyn ‘not ruling out’ second Scottish independence referendum
This outlay isn’t always obvious. Much of it goes on invisible spends such as social security and healthcare as opposed to shining infrastructure projects. But only a political fantasist would ignore its significance in the context of sovereignty. The fact is that, without as-yet-unfound solutions, an independent Wales would be left with a fiscal black hole of potentially crippling proportions. “Years of austerity,” is how the economist Sir Tom Devine has previously summed it up.

Once again, it is in Caernarfon that this potential issue is somehow summed up best. Sat bemusedly watching the independence march from the beer patio of the Morgan Lloyd pub, in the town square, is Rhiannon Evans, a full-time mum from nearby Bangor. She is not anti-independence in principle but would vote to remain in the UK if it came to a referendum. What could campaigners do to change her mind, I ask, and receive an instant answer: “Promise me my taxes wouldn’t go up to pay for it.”

For Adam Price, leader of Plaid Cymru, such financial concerns are understandable – but they get the question the wrong way around. “Wales is a rich country that has been given an inheritance of poverty,” he says. “This was a raw-resource super-power but – in classic colonial terms, it has to be said – everything of value was taken out of the ground here and we received no legacy from that wealth. We are poor precisely because we have not been independent. Now, the way to prise ourselves out of that rut is to take the levers of power.”

His own economic plan for potential sovereignty remains vague but he insists there are ways to generate national finances without overly burdening the populace. Borrowing and attracting business by reducing corporation tax appear to be among his ideas. Meeting on the morning of the independence rally at Caernarfon’s Galeri centre, I ask why indy-curiousness appears to be on the rise.

“You can’t avoid the B-word,” replies the 50-year-old, who represents the Carmarthen East and Dinefwr constituency in the Welsh Assembly. “Brexit. The daily omnishambles that is Westminster is a big part of this. A typical conversation I’m having is, ‘I’ve never thought of myself as a nationalist but now…’ Indy-curious is quite an appropriate term because it’s like Welsh people are coming out for this idea.”

Brexit Britain is on the brink of a breakdown
The theory is that although Wales itself voted Brexit, the reasons were not a dislike of the European Union per se but because people were looking for change. That change, counters Price, can be better achieved by becoming an independent nation within the EU. “The world is in flux because the status quo wasn’t delivering for people,” he says. “So, if you are progressive, you have to present your own ideas for a change project. Now, in Wales, I think the best answer to that is independence; and my feeling, when I’m out there talking to people, is that they are beginning to feel the same.”

He is one of those who turned to self-determination during the pit closures of the Eighties. His dad was a miner in the coal fields around Carmarthen and the teenage Price saw firsthand the devastation wrought by Thatcher’s shutdowns. When I repeat the joke about there being a statue of her outside the Senedd, he smiles tightly. “So the seagulls can…” – he appears to grasp for the right expression – “leave their mark on her,” he says.

Perhaps the biggest impetus in favour of Welsh self-rule, however, is not Brexit, Boris or years of perceived misrule and under-investment – but something entirely external: Scotland.

If Edinburgh breaks from the union, the idea that England and Wales will remain as a rump UK on the British mainland seems fanciful to Welsh independence supporters. “The entire architecture would have to be re-assessed,” says Price. “And I think that has to lead to independence because this it isn’t working for us.”

Equally significant perhaps is the fact that, while the 2014 Scottish independence referendum was fought and won on Scottish issues, the broader ideological battle – the right of a nation to control its own affairs – resonated across Wales too. Did the same not apply here, many asked.

Others found parallels in the SNP’s oft-repeated claims that an unshackled Scotland could emulate Europe’s other smaller nations, especially those of Scandinavia, in becoming both progressive and prosperous. If Norway, Finland and Denmark, all with populations of about 5 million, could become among the most admired countries on earth, there was no reason, the argument went, that Scotland (with roughly the same population) and Wales (3 million) could not do the same.

On social media, these lines of thought held succour and spread. A minority view they may have been – and remain – but, for the first time, those who held them had an effective way of communicating to large audiences. “I would say 2014 was the biggest recruiter for Welsh independence that there has probably ever been,” says Richard Wyn Jones. “It showed there was a way to embrace nationalist language while plausibly arguing that it’s about progressive social and constitutional change.”

It showed there was a way to embrace nationalist language while plausibly arguing that it’s about progressive social and constitutional change
On this basis, it may be worth adding a small coda. At present, it seems likely that history will judge David Cameron as the prime minister who caused unparalleled instability in modern Britain by holding the EU referendum without planning for the possible consequences. But he may yet be remembered for more besides: the man who, in holding a Scottish referendum he almost lost, sparked the disintegration of the United Kingdom itself.

Against this backdrop, the drowning of Capel Celyn in the Tryweryn valley has come, half a century on, back into the news once again. Graffiti sprayed on to a wall in Aberystwyth shortly after the village was flooded in 1965 has, in the intervening decades, come to be seen as a national landmark. “Cofiwch Dryweryn”, it says: Remember Tryweryn.

But twice in February this year the mural was vandalised. The response? Dozens of copycat signs have since been painted across Wales – both legally and otherwise – in an apparent show of spontaneous solidarity with the original message. They have appeared on walls and buildings, bridges and park benches from the island of Anglesey in the north to the Valleys of the south. Banners with it on have cropped up at football matches. A range of T-shirts has been created featuring the slogan. Many of them are being sported in Caernarfon.

Spending time among the crowd – a sea of red, green and white – reveals several more reasons for favouring independence, from a feeling that education needs improving to concerns over a creaking justice system neglected by Westminster.

Gareth Bale, too, gets a surprising number of mentions. “I think 2016 [when the Welsh football team reached the European Championship semi-finals] was important,” says Hywel Roberts, a 45-year-old construction worker from Llanrwst. “Wales is a country that has always lacked self-confidence. I think the success there gave us a real boost.”

It is a view that echoes the thinking of Adam Price (who says the Welsh struggle is with “our own sense of ability”), and Owain Williams, with his belief that the country has been slumbering. Before I leave Caernarfon, I ask the 85-year-old if he really believes Wales will leave the UK. I point out that despite the apparent growth of indy-curiousness, even the most generous polls still put support in a minority: many Welsh people, I suggest, simply feel British.

“I’ve fought for independence all my life for it and I’ll probably never see it myself,” he says. “But things are moving in the right direction. I’m sure it’s coming now. No nation will stay subjects forever. It’s always been just a matter of time.”

https://www.independent.co.uk/independentminds/long-reads/welsh-independence-wales-cardiff-devolution-yes-plaid-cymru-adam-price-a9052591.html

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這篇我用試閱看到的, 有把威爾斯獨立運動的來龍去脈講得比較清楚
雖然跟蘇格蘭還有北愛比起來, 威爾斯要獨立應該還有點早, 但因為民調支持的成長速度實在太快, 加上現在英國莊中堂搞出那樣的飛機, 難說威爾斯不會變成哈薩克一樣被獨立
东南军政长官,兼行政院东部联合服务中心主任、台湾省政府主席、浙江省大陈区行政督察专员、福建省金门军管区行政公署行政长、福建省马祖守备区战地政务委员会主任委员、台湾省梨山建设管理局局长、台北市阳明山管理局局长。
只看该作者 39 发表于: 2021-09-30
威尔士是公国,独立没什么可能的。
米字旗上代表威尔士的图案都没有。。。
做一些关于辽宁省的地图以及自己的设想yy。
whq
只看该作者 38 发表于: 2021-09-29
联合王国,像极了没有物质的爱情
都不用风吹,走两步就散了
到底是怎么混到这一步的,脱欧吗
只看该作者 37 发表于: 2021-09-29
回 kozaya 的帖子
kozaya:威爾斯獨立後
沒意外會成為西歐第一窮國
這就很尷尬
 (2021-06-25 16:22) 

再怎樣也不可能輸給科索沃的
东南军政长官,兼行政院东部联合服务中心主任、台湾省政府主席、浙江省大陈区行政督察专员、福建省金门军管区行政公署行政长、福建省马祖守备区战地政务委员会主任委员、台湾省梨山建设管理局局长、台北市阳明山管理局局长。
只看该作者 36 发表于: 2021-06-25
威爾斯獨立後
沒意外會成為西歐第一窮國
這就很尷尬
只看该作者 35 发表于: 2021-06-25
回 helensberg 的帖子
helensberg:苏格兰独立之日,就是工党完蛋之时……这也是为什么工党如此反对硬脱欧 (2021-01-09 23:10) 

工黨現在還掌控威爾斯啦, 等威爾斯黨取代工黨時才真是工黨完蛋了
东南军政长官,兼行政院东部联合服务中心主任、台湾省政府主席、浙江省大陈区行政督察专员、福建省金门军管区行政公署行政长、福建省马祖守备区战地政务委员会主任委员、台湾省梨山建设管理局局长、台北市阳明山管理局局长。
只看该作者 34 发表于: 2021-01-09
苏格兰独立之日,就是工党完蛋之时……这也是为什么工党如此反对硬脱欧
只看该作者 33 发表于: 2020-08-17
2020年7月20日星期一

盧楚仁:威爾斯要獨立 英臨分裂局面

【明報專訊】上星期終於有時間辦理續領BNO護照手續,續領BNO主要是方便我將來逗留在檳城歎世界,因為拿特區護照入境馬來西亞,每次只可以逗留一個月,但拿BNO入境的話,便可每次逗留三個月。對於我來說,3個月十分足夠了,到期的話可能去新加坡或者泰國一轉,甚至回港一趟後再入境。最近續領BNO人數急增,因為英國政府放寬港人入境,因此很多港人都有意移居英國,尤其是有子女的父母。

說到英國,除了疫情之外,現在英國所面對的政經問題可不少,政治上有脫歐和蘇格蘭醞釀獨立的問題,經濟上又遇上300年來最大的衰退。禍不單行,上星期四又多一單極具震撼性的新聞,就是英國威爾斯議會首次討論獨立動議。報道指威爾斯議會史上首次討論獨立動議,獨立動議由主張威爾斯獨立的威爾斯黨所提出,要求威爾斯議會下屆立法舉行有約束力的獨立公投。當地民意調查顯示,認為威爾斯政府的抗疫手法比英國政府好得多,因此威爾斯人對英國政府漸趨不滿,令到獨立的呼聲與日俱增。

當地最新民調顯示,支持獨立的威爾斯民意創新高達25%,比起年初時增加4個百分點,但相對於蘇格蘭民眾要求獨立的54%仍然較低。以此趨勢判斷,明年要求威爾斯獨立的民眾估計將會上破30%。當中主要原因是英國經濟不景氣,以及脫歐問題令威爾斯人萌生走回獨立之路。

威爾斯和蘇格蘭一樣,原本是一個獨立王國。在1282年,威爾斯被當時的英格蘭國王愛德華一世征服及吞併至今,成為大英帝國的一部分。但合併738年後,因大英帝國國力已日落黃昏,因此繼蘇格蘭和北愛爾蘭之後,威爾斯終於也想和英國說分手。但當然,輪到問題的嚴重性,一定不及蘇格蘭的獨立運動,因當地民意已經超過一半要求脫離英國獨立,故一旦舉行具法律效力的獨立公投的話,後果將不堪設想。

蘇格蘭獨立民意續漲 或再辦公投
有樂觀人士認為,約翰遜不會讓蘇格蘭舉行獨立公投。但要留意,情况就如當年卡梅倫一樣,他最終在民意壓力下讓蘇格蘭舉行獨立公投。所以,作為西方民主國家,民意大於一切,因此我絕對不會掉以輕心認為蘇格蘭一定不能舉辦第二次脫英獨立公投。

上星期一的蘇格蘭《每日記事報》報道指出,在新冠病毒疫情衝擊下,蘇格蘭民眾要求脫離英國獨立的呼聲有增無減。當地有議員甚至不滿蘇格蘭民族黨領導人施雅晴,要求盡快成立新的政黨進一步推動實現獨立公投。估計明年英國正式脫歐之後,估計蘇格蘭要求獨立的民意可能接近60%至70%,到時英國政府難以對抗龐大的民意壓力,而有機會讓蘇格蘭再次舉行獨立公投。

在蘇格蘭方面,當地仍然堅持能夠在2021年5月蘇格蘭議會選舉前舉行脫英公投。根據英國《每日快報》上星期一所報道,主張脫英獨立的蘇格蘭民族黨目前仍然是佔有絕對優勢,有望在明年大選中取得破紀錄的議席。故英國目前千瘡百孔的問題下,我更加不會改變對英鎊長期悲觀的看法。當然,不排除短線因美股強令美元弱,而導致英鎊水鬼升城隍,亦因如此,或造就投資者可以趁高有靚價沽英鎊。

長線看淡 宜趁高沽英鎊
現在中英因香港及華為問題鬧得面紅耳熱,關係急轉直下,估計中方會向英方作出一連串經濟上的反制及報復措施,令英國經濟會進一步受到打擊。有聲音指出,未來有大量港人移居英國會帶動當地經濟及樓價,相信也是言之尚早,因為相關政策的細則尚未公布,就算是所謂利好,相信也是短期的刺激。長遠來說,英國的四分五裂才是致命傷。

資深外匯及商品獨立分析師
[盧楚仁 金匯商情]

https://news.mingpao.com/pns/%E7%B6%93%E6%BF%9F/article/20200720/s00004/1595183494336/%E7%9B%A7%E6%A5%9A%E4%BB%81-%E5%A8%81%E7%88%BE%E6%96%AF%E8%A6%81%E7%8D%A8%E7%AB%8B-%E8%8B%B1%E8%87%A8%E5%88%86%E8%A3%82%E5%B1%80%E9%9D%A2
东南军政长官,兼行政院东部联合服务中心主任、台湾省政府主席、浙江省大陈区行政督察专员、福建省金门军管区行政公署行政长、福建省马祖守备区战地政务委员会主任委员、台湾省梨山建设管理局局长、台北市阳明山管理局局长。
只看该作者 32 发表于: 2020-04-10
回 奇櫻 的帖子
奇櫻:無破不立
好多人之見二戰後只有更多國家分離、自立,但卻不見另一邊廂國與國之間亦不斷靠攏抱團;
歐盟早在二戰結束就開始抱團,雖然直至1990年後才逐步接近現在大家認知的歐盟,但1990年代以後的一體化卻猶如才坐火箭般高速推進;
....... (2019-09-01 17:07) 

一个新冠肺炎,把欧盟抱团取暖的神话无情击破。
移动:小心😆电信🤣诈骗
电信:小心😳移动🙄支付陷阱
只看该作者 31 发表于: 2020-04-10
回 晦象先生 的帖子
晦象先生:建议uk 拆分为英格兰王国、苏格兰王国、威尔士王国,北爱尔兰独立或成为爱尔兰一部分。
英王是三个王国的名义元首,但三个政府是独立的。 (2019-09-01 11:39) 

威尔士大公国,仍然以英国王储威尔士大公为元首。查大锤终于可以当上国家元首了。
只看该作者 30 发表于: 2020-04-10
这种闹估计仅仅是想要点奶吃吧……
只看该作者 29 发表于: 2019-11-04
威尔士的自治权本来就很小,这样闹下去不如英国成立联邦
只看该作者 28 发表于: 2019-10-18
回 murano 的帖子
murano:建议爱尔兰一国两制 (2019-10-18 10:11) 

现在英欧协议差不多就是这样。北爱地位特殊。
移动:小心😆电信🤣诈骗
电信:小心😳移动🙄支付陷阱
只看该作者 27 发表于: 2019-10-18
建议爱尔兰一国两制
只看该作者 26 发表于: 2019-10-18
威爾斯黨原打算 2030 年前舉行獨立公投

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-politics-49919125

威爾斯黨現在打算跟蘇格蘭一起在同日舉行獨立公投

https://www.thenational.scot/news/17970828.plaid-cymru-push-joint-independence-referendum/

現在的威爾斯政府建議還是舉行公投吧, 因為真舉行獨派贏不了公投, 但不舉行的話獨派可能會取得威爾斯議會多數

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-politics-50013949
东南军政长官,兼行政院东部联合服务中心主任、台湾省政府主席、浙江省大陈区行政督察专员、福建省金门军管区行政公署行政长、福建省马祖守备区战地政务委员会主任委员、台湾省梨山建设管理局局长、台北市阳明山管理局局长。
只看该作者 25 发表于: 2019-09-20
Wexit? Wales could opt for independence if Westminster does not redeem itself

The long-sleeping Welsh dragon is becoming more restive, with a series of polls indicating a growing interest in separation.

Lewis Goodall
Political correspondent

Monday 16 September 2019 09:59, UK
BREXITWALES

In 2013 Plaid Cymru, the Welsh nationalist party said: "Could Wales flourish as an independent nation? We think that Wales can. We have recently celebrated the first 10 years of devolution - but we believe that the next 10 years will be the real decade of change. Wales and her people are ready and willing to ask the difficult questions - and also to come up with the solutions."

At the time, few paid any attention. In 2013 even Scottish independence seemed a relatively far-fetched idea; the drama of the referendum campaign was still to come. The idea of 'Wexit' seemed even more preposterous. Wales has not been anything close to an independent state since 1282.

Its nationalism, insofar as it had existed and been successful, had largely contained itself to questions of culture rather than politics, with a focus on protecting the Welsh language and cultural life more broadly.

EU membership has thus become a segment, if not the primary driver of the culture war
Yet of late, the long-sleeping Welsh dragon is becoming more restive. A series of polls have indicated a growing interest in the idea of separation. A poll published yesterday indicated that if Wales' status within the EU could be assured, 40% of those who expressed a view (around 30% if you include those without) would opt for independence.

Less than a decade ago, some polls put support for such an idea in the single digits. The idea has been gaining more traction since but the acceleration is interesting. It has been accompanied by a series of marches and demonstrations in favour of separation. It has been a slow boiling but potentially major development in British politics.

Think of Wales' part in the union as the ultimate stress test. Scotland may have been semi-detached for some time; since 1922 Northern Ireland has had a unique status and history of contestation but Wales has been politically stitched to England for nigh on a millennium.

So if Wales is wavering, it gives some impression of the considerable burden the union is bearing right now. The loosening of our national bonds has much to do with Brexit: its effect has been threefold, each to the detriment of the union.

Firstly, it has exposed Westminster's deepest fragility; its incapacity to deal with the Brexit crisis has had a profound impact on the prestige of the Westminster model and our own institutions in the minds of virtually all voters, with those in the nations no exception.

The actions of government ministers and MPs, in whatever form, have contributed to its discredit as a governing model.

Many English people might sympathise with Scots, Welsh and Irish who look at Westminster and think, I would love to escape it. They, unlike the English, have a potential lever to pull.

Secondly, it has highlighted an old sore: the nations' relative political unimportance in the House of Commons. Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland together, barely equate to a fifth of England's MPs.

Frankly, their views can be overridden easily, there just isn't the clout. Time and again, the government in particular has seemed utterly indifferent to the starkly different politics of the nations, especially apropos the European question. That's despite the fact that in the Conservatives' case, had they not won 12 new seats north of the border in 2017, they would not be in government now.

The lack of senior Scottish or Welsh voices around the cabinet table (compare this to almost any period in the last century) emphasise this too. Simply put, as with the referendum itself, demographic power means England will always be king.

And third, curiously, the Brexit process has somewhat rehabilitated the EU's reputation with regards to its treatment of smaller states. Nationalists across Europe, far from seeing Brussels as yet another imperial power seeking to erode their national identities, have come in recent decades to see it as a guarantor of nationhood and the rights of small states.

This reputation appeared lost after the Greek crisis (remember the now quaint-sounding 'Grexit'?); but the perception has taken root that Ireland's voice and power has been massively enhanced during the Brexit standoff and that the EU's wholehearted support has helped see off its larger, more powerful neighbour. The EU is seen as a means of equalising power between larger and smaller states and is thus attractive to nationalist movements in Britain.

And this is why the union may prove so unstable in the long term. Brexit has introduced a new and potentially long-lasting cleavage into British politics.

Whereas before concern about the EU was a minority if not eccentric pursuit, it has become nearly ubiquitous. Indeed a whole new type of voter has been created; those who see our membership of the EU as a fundamental political fixture, a part of their identities.

EU membership has thus become a segment, if not the primary driver of the culture war. Even if we leave, if nationalism comes to be seen as a means of winning that culture war, of regaining what was lost, the British state, as an obstacle in its way, could easily fall.

For Brexit has taken away the two fundamental assets of unionism: in the Scottish referendum, the basic virtue of those arguing for the UK was that the British state offered political stability and reliability.

Today, it is Westminster not Holyrood or Cardiff Bay which looks like the bigger risk.

Secondly, in years gone by nationalism was seen as the insular force, a nativist one even.

But Brexit has recast nationalism and nationalists as those who wish to be part of the greater continental whole, not an island with its inward-looking nation state. No talk of 'global Britain' can compensate for that.

To many liberal-minded and left wing voters, nationalism now appears more cosmopolitan and offers a potential escape route from a Westminster which seems destined to be painted an ever deeper shade of Tory (and at that a right-wing Tory) blue. We have arrived at the odd place where being a Scottish or Welsh nationalist is synonymous with being a globalist, for eschewing nationalism.

And so perhaps, the most interesting finding of the recent Welsh polling is that over 40% of Labour voters from 2017 would back independence with EU membership attached. This should send alarm bells ringing in Labour's offices in Cardiff and London.

It seems eerily reminiscent of what happened to the party in Scotland. If voters on the liberal left come to believe that there is no longer salvation for their brand of politics to be had in Westminster and the parties charged with preserving it, they might look elsewhere.

Labour is still reeling from its losses in Scotland; it will be dealt a near terminal blow if Wales goes the same way. A source from Plaid Cymru told me that they're seeing Labour voters more and more receptive to their separatist message: "We used to shy away from it…but now they are not shutting you down when you raise it, they are much more open to the idea than they have ever been before. It has gone from anti-politics to anti-Westminster."

The theme of the mid to late 2010s has been Britain's unravelling within the European club, our berth for nearly half a century. If Westminster does not redeem itself, if it does not think big about the union - and fast - the theme of the 2020s, will be the unravelling of Britain as a multi-nation state itself, our berth for two and a half centuries more.

https://news.sky.com/story/wexit-wales-could-opt-for-independence-if-westminster-does-not-redeem-itself-11809164
东南军政长官,兼行政院东部联合服务中心主任、台湾省政府主席、浙江省大陈区行政督察专员、福建省金门军管区行政公署行政长、福建省马祖守备区战地政务委员会主任委员、台湾省梨山建设管理局局长、台北市阳明山管理局局长。
只看该作者 24 发表于: 2019-09-10
威尔士并不是苏格兰、北爱尔兰那样的实体,只是个地理名词而已,实际上属于英格兰的一部分
只看该作者 23 发表于: 2019-09-10
回 vladimir 的帖子
vladimir:威爾斯人其實沒真要獨立, 但覺得他們過去都是被別人決定未來, 自己人數少怎麼投票都沒用,
所以希望這次能跟蘇格蘭與北愛一起上牌桌, 那怕只能當相公放槍, 也比在旁邊連插花機會都沒有爽
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-49621438 (2019-09-09 22:48) 

可以拉横幅:我要加入爱尔兰。。。这样更刺激。。。
中北海-主动承担部分中南海职能
只看该作者 22 发表于: 2019-09-10
北爱是新教,爱尔兰是天主教。
海到尽头天作岸,山登绝顶我为峰
只看该作者 21 发表于: 2019-09-09
威爾斯人其實沒真要獨立, 但覺得他們過去都是被別人決定未來, 自己人數少怎麼投票都沒用,
所以希望這次能跟蘇格蘭與北愛一起上牌桌, 那怕只能當相公放槍, 也比在旁邊連插花機會都沒有爽

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-49621438
东南军政长官,兼行政院东部联合服务中心主任、台湾省政府主席、浙江省大陈区行政督察专员、福建省金门军管区行政公署行政长、福建省马祖守备区战地政务委员会主任委员、台湾省梨山建设管理局局长、台北市阳明山管理局局长。
只看该作者 20 发表于: 2019-09-04
就是不知道万一强力手段没把握好度,短时间内即使奏效,长期会不会造成更大反弹
只看该作者 19 发表于: 2019-09-04
现任的庄中堂是强硬派,应该不会对苏格兰作出什么让步,而会采取强力手段应对
只看该作者 18 发表于: 2019-09-04
回 扬歌海上 的帖子
扬歌海上:大不列颠真的分裂了,英格兰可以继承联合国五常席位么? (2019-09-04 14:26) 

英格兰之于联合王国=俄罗斯之于苏联
多数人一生三件事---自欺、欺人、被人欺
一个人炫耀什么,说明内心缺少什么。
一个人越在意的地方,就是最令他自卑的地方。
人生在世,幼时认为什么都不懂,大学时以为什么都懂,毕业后才知道什么都不懂,中年又以为什么都懂,到晚年才觉悟一切都不懂。------林语堂
只看该作者 17 发表于: 2019-09-04
大不列颠真的分裂了,英格兰可以继承联合国五常席位么?
只看该作者 16 发表于: 2019-09-04
回 南岭孤侠 的帖子
南岭孤侠:谁告诉你三个政府是独立的?自己去查查什么叫“权力下发法案”,什么都不懂就瞎比比! (2019-09-02 09:36) 

他們看到的是島民水深火熱,需要站起來。
分省分縣直轄市、GDP有參考價值、市管縣縣改區、曲學阿世指鹿爲馬顚倒黑白挑戰常識,四大謬。
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