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[英国]您认为苏格兰是否会独立? [复制链接]

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只看该作者 175 发表于: 2014-09-19
回 tudou002 的帖子
tudou002:现在的英国应该是苏格兰吞并的英格兰吧?是苏格兰国王加冕英格兰国王才组建的现在的大英帝国。
也就是现在应该是英格兰威尔士北爱尔兰脱离苏格兰的吞并,光荣独立吧? (2014-08-26 10:12) 

这个历史表明,所谓苏格兰独立根本就是个伪命题。
只看该作者 176 发表于: 2018-01-17
6年多了,还没有独立,再等等看
多数人一生三件事---自欺、欺人、被人欺
一个人炫耀什么,说明内心缺少什么。
一个人越在意的地方,就是最令他自卑的地方。
人生在世,幼时认为什么都不懂,大学时以为什么都懂,毕业后才知道什么都不懂,中年又以为什么都懂,到晚年才觉悟一切都不懂。------林语堂
只看该作者 177 发表于: 2018-01-18
苏格兰真的独立了,是不是大不列颠的五常位置就难以保障了?
只看该作者 178 发表于: 2018-01-18
回 扬歌海上 的帖子
扬歌海上:苏格兰真的独立了,是不是大不列颠的五常位置就难以保障了? (2018-01-18 14:02) 

不会的。参考苏联解体后的俄罗斯
多数人一生三件事---自欺、欺人、被人欺
一个人炫耀什么,说明内心缺少什么。
一个人越在意的地方,就是最令他自卑的地方。
人生在世,幼时认为什么都不懂,大学时以为什么都懂,毕业后才知道什么都不懂,中年又以为什么都懂,到晚年才觉悟一切都不懂。------林语堂
只看该作者 179 发表于: 2019-07-28
上次蘇聯因為一位叫 Boris 的而解體, 連哈薩克都只好獨立
看看這次蘇格蘭會不會也受惠於 Boris 而獨立
东南军政长官,兼行政院东部联合服务中心主任、台湾省政府主席、浙江省大陈区行政督察专员、福建省金门军管区行政公署行政长、福建省马祖守备区战地政务委员会主任委员、台湾省梨山建设管理局局长、台北市阳明山管理局局长。
只看该作者 180 发表于: 2019-08-20
現在這個 Boris 跟之前那個 Boris 主政時一樣, 都是聯盟領導國家 (英格蘭跟俄羅斯) 比其他分子國更想要拆分整個聯盟

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-08-09/scottish-independence-irish-reunification-brexit-helps-both
东南军政长官,兼行政院东部联合服务中心主任、台湾省政府主席、浙江省大陈区行政督察专员、福建省金门军管区行政公署行政长、福建省马祖守备区战地政务委员会主任委员、台湾省梨山建设管理局局长、台北市阳明山管理局局长。
只看该作者 181 发表于: 2019-08-21
正常情况下其实不会,但保不准呢。
只看该作者 182 发表于: 2019-09-12
东南军政长官,兼行政院东部联合服务中心主任、台湾省政府主席、浙江省大陈区行政督察专员、福建省金门军管区行政公署行政长、福建省马祖守备区战地政务委员会主任委员、台湾省梨山建设管理局局长、台北市阳明山管理局局长。
只看该作者 183 发表于: 2019-10-18
Another Scottish referendum beckons—and this time the nationalists may win – The other exit negotiations

www.economist.com
by www.economist.com via GoorufBot
GoorufBot 6 hours ago
  
www.economist.com
Article taken from: www.economist.com
https://www.economist.com/britain/2019/10/17/another-scottish-referendum-beckons-and-this-time-the-nationalists-may-win

Article summary

IT IS A defining characteristic of the modern Scottish nationalist movement that it refuses to engage in extreme methods to advance its cause. This week, as Spain’s supreme court jailed Catalan separatist leaders for between nine and 13 years for sedition, following an illegal referendum and unilateral declaration of independence in 2017, the Scottish National Party was gathering peacefully in Aberdeen for its annual conference. Nicola Sturgeon, the SNP ’s leader and first minister of Scotland, was quick to condemn the Spanish court’s decision as “dreadful”. When it comes to radical activity, Scottish nationalists might engage in a boisterous march through the streets of Edinburgh or, if especially grumpy, wave some placards outside the “biased” BBC .

This perhaps reflects the fact that Britain has been a union of choice for more than 300 years and has largely operated to Scotland’s advantage. Polls in recent months have shown support for independence creeping up to 50% and above . One reason is Brexit, which Scots opposed 62-38 and whose implementation is proving to be messy. It may not be long before they are once again asked to make such a decision.

Ms Sturgeon says she will request a Section 30 order from Westminster, enabling another referendum, by the end of this year. It seems unlikely that a Conservative government would oblige before the next Holyrood election in 2021. The price of its support would be a second referendum. With their objective suddenly and unexpectedly looming into prospect again, some of the more excitable Scottish nationalists are growing impatient.

“The unhappiness is real and stronger than the leadership would like outsiders to believe. The first minister has long had to balance the SNP ’s gradualists against its fundamentalists. The latter are often loyal to Alex Salmond, who led the party for most of the time between 1990 and 2014, and whose approach to politics was considerably more abrasive and divisive than Ms Sturgeon’s. There is also the matter of Mr Salmond’s trial, due early next year, for attempted rape and other sexual offences.

This, they know, would establish an undeniable mandate for a new referendum. Before then, they want to deepen support for leaving, and drive that 50% figure higher. Despite the grumbles, SNP gradualists still have the upper hand. They believe their lifelong goal of Scottish independence has never been closer, and that playing by the rules will get them across the line sooner rather than later.

And the truth is that Ms Sturgeon, like all clever democrats, doesn’t want to have the fight until she is sure she can win it.
东南军政长官,兼行政院东部联合服务中心主任、台湾省政府主席、浙江省大陈区行政督察专员、福建省金门军管区行政公署行政长、福建省马祖守备区战地政务委员会主任委员、台湾省梨山建设管理局局长、台北市阳明山管理局局长。
只看该作者 184 发表于: 2019-10-18
17th October
Blocking Scottish independence referendum indefinitely is unsustainable, think tank warns
By Evening Times Online

It would be unsustainable for the UK Government to block a Scottish independence referendum if a majority of Scots want one, according to a leading think tank.

In a new report, the Institute for Government (IFG) also suggests the legitimacy of the union could be undermined if a request to hold another vote is continually rejected.

The document, which focuses on the impact of a no-deal Brexit and the union, was highlighted on the day Prime Minister Boris Johnson announced a deal had been reached with the European Union.

Under a section titled “Mitigating the risks to the union”, the IFG wrote: “The Scottish Government intends to hold a second independence referendum.

“This will need the agreement of Westminster. However, if there is a clear majority in Scotland for a second vote on independence, it would be unsustainable and counterproductive for the UK Government to block it indefinitely.”

At the SNP conference in Aberdeen, First Minister Nicola Sturgeon restated her position that independence must be achieved through a legally binding referendum.

That was despite calls for a “plan B” approach which would involve starting independence talks with the UK in the event that a pro-independence majority is achieved at the next Holyrood election.

On the potential for the UK Government to block another vote, the report read: “Any attempt to proceed with a second referendum without Westminster explicitly devolving the power to do so would almost certainly be subject to legal challenge and probably a boycott from unionist parties and the UK Government.

“A referendum held in this manner would be unlikely to command widespread legitimacy. It’s clear that the Scottish Government, and other prominent supporters of independence, do not want to go down the path of an unauthorised referendum.”

The report continued: “A continued refusal by the UK Government to devolve the power to hold an independence referendum would become harder to justify if nationalist parties perform well at the next UK general and Scottish parliamentary elections.

“If the UK Government continues to deny a vote in all circumstances, this could further undermine the legitimacy of the union and make for ever-more dysfunctional intergovernmental relations.

“For both practical and principled reasons, the UK Government should ultimately accept that Scotland has the right to secede from the union should a majority of its citizens so desire.”

The report also suggested that potential trade and economic barriers could make the case for Scottish independence more difficult in the event of a hard Brexit.

It said: “There is an argument that the case for Scottish independence might in fact become harder for nationalists to make after a hard Brexit.

“The reason is that if the UK leaves the EU single market and customs union, and Scotland leaves the UK in order to rejoin the EU, then this could lead to new barriers to trade and other economic activity between Scotland and England.”

Keith BrownSNP depute leader Keith Brown said Scotland should and must have the choice to determine its future (Jane Barlow/PA)
SNP depute leader Keith Brown said: “It is self-evident that Scotland can, should and must have the choice to determine our own future with independence.

“This report adds grist to that mill, making clear that the decision Scotland makes must be respected.

“It sends a stern warning to Westminster that continuing to refuse a referendum will completely undermine the legitimacy of an already crumbling union.

“And what right does anybody have to deny the people of Scotland that right to choose our own future? It is a completely unsustainable position, already coming apart at the seams.

“Any form of Brexit will hammer Scotland, as we are dragged out of Europe against our will.

“Westminster’s assault on democracy is untenable, and Scotland will have a choice.”

https://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/17976106.blocking-scottish-independence-referendum-indefinitely-unsustainable-think-tank-warns/
东南军政长官,兼行政院东部联合服务中心主任、台湾省政府主席、浙江省大陈区行政督察专员、福建省金门军管区行政公署行政长、福建省马祖守备区战地政务委员会主任委员、台湾省梨山建设管理局局长、台北市阳明山管理局局长。
只看该作者 185 发表于: 2019-10-18
苏格兰独立的可能性不大。
只看该作者 186 发表于: 2019-10-18
再过5年后看
多数人一生三件事---自欺、欺人、被人欺
一个人炫耀什么,说明内心缺少什么。
一个人越在意的地方,就是最令他自卑的地方。
人生在世,幼时认为什么都不懂,大学时以为什么都懂,毕业后才知道什么都不懂,中年又以为什么都懂,到晚年才觉悟一切都不懂。------林语堂
只看该作者 187 发表于: 2019-10-19
回 zhaohz 的帖子
zhaohz:不会的。参考苏联解体后的俄罗斯 (2018-01-18 14:22) 

哪怕是只剩下英格兰,实力已然超越大韩民国!
只进行机构改革不进行地域建制规模改革是不彻底、不完善、带有妥协性的改革!
只看该作者 188 发表于: 2019-11-04
英苏关系破裂是大不列颠岛民不想看到的,苏格兰应该争取更多的自治权
只看该作者 189 发表于: 2019-12-24
回 vladimir 的帖子
vladimir:上次蘇聯因為一位叫 Boris 的而解體, 連哈薩克都只好獨立
看看這次蘇格蘭會不會也受惠於 Boris 而獨立 (2019-07-28 08:25) 

不同的是,俄罗斯加盟共和国总统Boris推动苏联解体,英国首相Boris阻碍英国解体
燕山雪无畏,燕山雪有理
只看该作者 190 发表于: 2019-12-24
回 人民民主 的帖子
人民民主:不同的是,俄罗斯加盟共和国总统Boris推动苏联解体,英国首相Boris阻碍英国解体 (2019-12-24 16:11) 

大英帝國是因邱吉爾打勝仗而解體的
东南军政长官,兼行政院东部联合服务中心主任、台湾省政府主席、浙江省大陈区行政督察专员、福建省金门军管区行政公署行政长、福建省马祖守备区战地政务委员会主任委员、台湾省梨山建设管理局局长、台北市阳明山管理局局长。
只看该作者 191 发表于: 2019-12-25
回 vladimir 的帖子
vladimir:大英帝國是因邱吉爾打勝仗而解體的 (2019-12-24 20:47) 

我说的英国指的是现在的英国
燕山雪无畏,燕山雪有理
只看该作者 192 发表于: 01-04
回 人民民主 的帖子
人民民主:我说的英国指的是现在的英国 (2019-12-25 00:05) 

我指的就是英國的解體進程從那時就開始
东南军政长官,兼行政院东部联合服务中心主任、台湾省政府主席、浙江省大陈区行政督察专员、福建省金门军管区行政公署行政长、福建省马祖守备区战地政务委员会主任委员、台湾省梨山建设管理局局长、台北市阳明山管理局局长。
只看该作者 193 发表于: 02-04
歐盟開始要裂解英國了?
前歐盟理事會主席稱他同情爭取獨立的蘇格蘭 引爭議
宇寧2020.2.3 08:24

【希望之聲2020年2月3日】(本台記者宇寧綜合報導)歐盟理事會前主席圖斯克2月2日表示, 歐盟非常同情希望獨立後再加入歐盟蘇格蘭。英國外相拉布則批評圖斯克的言談不負責任。

據政治週刊報導,圖斯克說從感情上而言,毫無疑問布魯塞爾和歐洲更廣大地區都歡迎蘇格蘭加入歐盟。

自從英國於上週五午夜11時正式退出歐盟後,蘇格蘭首席大臣斯特金(Nicola Sturgeon)就開始爲爭取蘇格蘭進行二次獨立公投而努力, 因爲在英國2016年的英脫歐公投中,大多數蘇格蘭選民要求的是留在歐盟。 而且上週的一份民調顯示,蘇格蘭地區支持獨立的選民的人數超過了支持英國統一的選民人數, 這是自從2015年以來蘇格蘭首次出現大多數選民支持蘇格蘭獨立。

蘇格蘭外交事務發言人史密斯(Alyn Smith) 對於圖斯克的這席話表示歡迎,他說這是歐盟領袖私下來的態度, 這也說明歐盟會“敞開胸懷接收蘇格蘭”。

他說:“蘇格蘭被英國保守黨強行帶離是違背蘇格蘭選民民意的,也是未得到蘇格蘭民衆授權的。”他表示蘇格蘭準備通過獨立來保護其是歐盟 一部分的地位。

但是英國外相拉布則在同一天表示,圖斯克的話很不像歐盟領袖的話,而且相當不負責任。

他說:“我不認爲歐盟領袖會歡迎這種言辭,更不要說英國政府會歡迎。 ”

拉布還表示,英國政府期望蘇格蘭民族黨能夠兌現他們的承諾, 因爲該黨曾經承諾會遵從2014年蘇格蘭獨立公投的結果,而蘇格蘭2014年公投的結果是要求蘇格蘭留在英國。

英國政府已經表示,由於2014年蘇格蘭民族黨要求的蘇格蘭獨立選舉是一個“一生一次”的選舉,因此英國政府不準備授予蘇格蘭第二次獨立公投的機會

https://www.soundofhope.org/post/339136?lang=b5
东南军政长官,兼行政院东部联合服务中心主任、台湾省政府主席、浙江省大陈区行政督察专员、福建省金门军管区行政公署行政长、福建省马祖守备区战地政务委员会主任委员、台湾省梨山建设管理局局长、台北市阳明山管理局局长。
只看该作者 194 发表于: 02-14
路漫漫,革命之路花团锦簇。
~~欢迎苏州人民来昆山旅游~~~~~~
~~~~欢迎苏州人民来昆山旅游~~~~
~~~~~~欢迎苏州人民来昆山旅游~~
只看该作者 195 发表于: 06-23
东南军政长官,兼行政院东部联合服务中心主任、台湾省政府主席、浙江省大陈区行政督察专员、福建省金门军管区行政公署行政长、福建省马祖守备区战地政务委员会主任委员、台湾省梨山建设管理局局长、台北市阳明山管理局局长。
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