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[译名地名]BBC專題報導:「Ukraine」還是「the Ukraine」? [复制链接]

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只看楼主 倒序阅读 0 发表于: 2012-06-07
— 本帖被 keating 从 地名文化 移动到本区(2024-02-29) —
BBC對烏克蘭應稱為「Ukraine」還是「the Ukraine」的探討,順道討論了為何有些國家的名稱前面會加「the」。先全文轉貼,有空才翻成中文。
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18233844



Ukraine or the Ukraine: Why do some country names have 'the'?
By Tom Geoghegan BBC News Magazine
7 June 2012 Last updated at 10:06 GMT

As Ukraine prepares to co-host one of football's biggest tournaments, Euro 2012, why do some people call it "the Ukraine"? And why do some other country names also have a definite article?

The eyes of the sporting world turn to Ukraine and Poland, as Europe's top 16 national teams begin a four-week football festival.

Yet the English-speaking media can't quite agree on how one of the two co-hosts should be described. It is "the Ukraine" in the UK's Daily Mirror, and simply "Ukraine" in the Times of India. Why the confusion?

"The Ukraine" is incorrect both grammatically and politically, says Oksana Kyzyma of the Embassy of Ukraine in London.

"Ukraine is both the conventional short and long name of the country," she says. "This name is stated in the Ukrainian Declaration of Independence and Constitution."

The use of the article relates to the time before independence in 1991, when Ukraine was a republic of the Soviet Union known as the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic, she says. Since then, it should be merely Ukraine.

There is no definite article in the Ukrainian or Russian languages and there is another theory why it crept into the English language.

Those who called it "the Ukraine" in English must have known that the word meant "borderland", says Anatoly Liberman, a professor at the University of Minnesota with a specialism in etymology. So they referred to it as "the borderland".

Officially 'the':
    Short name: The Gambia, The Bahamas
Source: Permanent Committee on Geographical Names
    And often heard with 'the': Congo, Gambia, Yemen, Lebanon, Sudan, Netherlands, Philippines, Bahamas, Ukraine


"After the collapse of the Soviet Union, Ukrainians probably decided that the article denigrated their country [by identifying it as a part of Russia] and abolished 'the' while speaking English, so now it is simply Ukraine.

"That's why the Ukraine suddenly lost its article in the last 20 years, it's a sort of linguistic independence in Europe, it's hugely symbolic."

The Germans still use it but the English-speaking world has largely stopped using it.

There are many other country names that are habitually referred to with "the", such as Congo, Gambia, Yemen, Lebanon, Sudan, Netherlands, Philippines and Bahamas.

But according to several authoritative sources, such as the CIA World Factbook, the Times Comprehensive Atlas of the World and the US Department of State, only two countries, The Bahamas and The Gambia, should officially be referred to with the article.

The two Congos are officially Democratic Republic of the Congo and Republic of the Congo.

From Gambia to The Gambia

The only two countries that officially have the definite article are The Gambia and The Bahamas, says Becky Maddock of the Permanent Committee on Geographical Names (PCGN), which advises the UK Government on "the proper writing" of place names.

"We do have a letter dated May 1964 from the Gambian prime minister's office which instructed us that it should be The Gambia with a capital T. One of the reasons they gave was that Gambia could be confused with Zambia, which was a new name to the international community at the time."


"It's most likely the approach of the UK Foreign Office to retain 'the' as the short form of the [longer] official name - The Republic of the Gambia and The Commonwealth of the Bahamas," says Mick Ashworth, former editor and consultant to the Times Atlas.

"We will tend to take the advice of the Foreign Office and the Permanent Committee on Geographical Names (PCGN). These quite often have a long and a short form."

In some of the other cases, says Ashworth, it's largely a question of usage and how people refer to them. Quite commonly, definite articles are attached to areas where they have a mix between geophysical names and a physical entity.

"Groups of islands like the Maldives and the Bahamas. You wouldn't say 'I'm going to Maldives, you'd say 'I'm going to the Maldives' because it's a geographical area."

Countries like the United States of America and the United Kingdom also carry the definite article because they are compound nouns with adjectives.

Professor Liberman says the habit of putting "the" in front of place names is heard throughout the English-speaking world and is common to Germanic and Romantic languages.

"In general, use of the definite article is unpredictable. Why should it be London but The Thames? There is no logic for it yet this is the way it is.

Confucius on place names

One day, a disciple asked Confucius: "If a king were to entrust you with a territory which you could govern according to your ideas, what would you do first?"

Confucius replied: "My first task would certainly be to rectify the names."

The puzzled disciple asked: "Rectify the names?…Is this a joke?"

Confucius replied: "If the names are not correct, if they do not match realities, language has no object. If language is without an object, action becomes impossible - and therefore all human affairs disintegrate and their management becomes pointless and impossible. Hence, the very first task of a true statesman is to rectify the names."

Source: Permanent Committee on Geographical Names, UK


"Sometimes country names go back to river names. As late as the mid-20th Century, everyone said The Congo because Congo is the river and named after the river, but no-one says it any more."

He suspects that people once preferred to add the article if the place name related to a geographical feature like a group of islands (Bahamas) a river (Congo), a desert (Sudan) or mountain range (Lebanon).

"Later the phrases were shortened, but the article survived. Hence the arbitrary rule that river names, the names of deserts and mountain ranges need 'the'.

Articles appeared in English comparatively late, he says - in Old English there were no definite articles.

"All proper names and place names at one time meant something to us and some of them you still understand their meaning.

"So The Netherlands is 'the low countries'. And as long as the meaning is clear, the article isn't entirely useless. Sometimes it's a relic of the past, for example the [administrative] capital of The Netherlands, The Hague, means 'hedge' or 'haw', hence The Hague with the article has been preserved.

"As far as the countries are concerned, there are all kinds of situations where this happened.

"Deutschland is German Land, so there's nothing wrong in saying the article but there is no reason why Deutschland has no article and The Netherlands has the article.

"Sometimes the answer is more or less clear and sometimes not at all, just a tribute to a tradition of long standing."
[ 此帖被香港來的沛在2012-06-07 21:39重新编辑 ]

只看该作者 1 发表于: 2012-06-07
全看下来,似乎是想说,尽管有些人想鼓捣出规则,但实际上更多的是出于习惯。
综合规模=人口(百万)*3+面积(万km2)
面积包括陆地、内水、基线之内的内海以及12海里领海的面积。
只看该作者 2 发表于: 2012-06-08
很有趣的现象,德语里面也有,大多数国家名称无须带定冠词,而有些国家名称是要带定冠词的。德语的定冠词有四个,der对应阳性单数名词,die对应阴性单数名词,das对应中性单数名词,die对应复数名词,都相当于英语的定冠词the(英语现已经不完全分阳阴中三性),大多数国家名称是中性单数,约定俗成不用带das,而有的国家名称是阳性单数阴性单数和复数,要带相应的定冠词。阴性单数的,如die Ukraine ,die Slowakei,die Schweiz,die Türkei 等等。 阳性单数的,如der Jemen,der Libanon, der Sudan,der Irak, der Iran等等,不知为何这几个都是绿色国家。复数的,如 die Bahamas,die Philippinen, die Niederlande等等,前两者是群岛国家,后者是联省国家,都是复数的。另外海牙德语名称是den Haag,是直接从荷兰语中拿来的。
[ 此帖被niesuper在2012-06-08 02:56重新编辑 ]
im Tugendland
只看该作者 3 发表于: 2012-06-08
乌克兰刚独立时,看其在欧洲相对的人口和面积,我还以为又是一个德法英意程度的强大国家。
只看该作者 4 发表于: 2012-06-08
引用第3楼liang21于2012-06-08 08:59发表的  :
乌克兰刚独立时,看其在欧洲相对的人口和面积,我还以为又是一个德法英意程度的强大国家。
到现在都没搞好自身定位。
im Tugendland
只看该作者 5 发表于: 2012-06-08
乌克兰这么好的自然条件,外加前苏联的工业底子和高素质的人口,搞成今天这样真的让人纳闷!
独立思考,不仅仅是一种态度,更是一种能力!
007
只看该作者 6 发表于: 2012-06-09
感觉是“日本”和“日本国”的区别。
一切有为法,如梦幻泡影,如露亦如电,应作如是观。
只看该作者 7 发表于: 2012-06-09
引用第3楼liang21于2012-06-08 08:59发表的  :
乌克兰刚独立时,看其在欧洲相对的人口和面积,我还以为又是一个德法英意程度的强大国家。


乌克兰刚独立的时候,核武器数量居世界第三,你说强大不强大?
古今多少事,尽付笑谈中……
只看该作者 8 发表于: 2012-06-20
欧洲杯四个小组,每个小组淘汰一支“兰”,乌克兰躺着中枪,因为它不是land,而是Ukraine。而Poland、Ireland、Netherlands、England,都是land(s)。 跟真斯坦假斯坦一样,建议乌克兰的中文翻译参照英文发音“优可云”。或者乌克兰语发音“乌克来纳”
federico
只看该作者 9 发表于: 2012-06-20
回 8楼(乐乐) 的帖子
你的规律不灵,Deutschland三战全胜,小组第一出线。
im Tugendland
只看该作者 10 发表于: 2012-06-20
回 8楼(乐乐) 的帖子
England也打破了,德国2010年的债报应在乌克兰身上。
im Tugendland
只看该作者 11 发表于: 2012-06-20
引用第6楼007于2012-06-09 16:48发表的  :
感觉是“日本”和“日本国”的区别。

应该是English与England的区别。
欢迎加入本论坛QQ群:方舆-G1荆湖楚江22033501,方舆-J2欧洲地理218760154、方舆-B8.城乡规划218764489!
只看该作者 12 发表于: 2012-06-20
回 8楼(乐乐) 的帖子
Russland也躺着中枪
只看该作者 13 发表于: 2012-06-28
英语中,我只知道尼德兰是必须带the的。
移动:小心😆电信🤣诈骗
电信:小心😳移动🙄支付陷阱
只看该作者 14 发表于: 2012-07-04
冈比亚的正式国名就是The Gambia,注意不是the Gambia
意在突出该国的独一无二
此外还有萨尔瓦多的正式国名El Salvador
意在突出救世主Salvador耶稣基督是唯一真神。

另见维基百科“英语冠词”(English articles)一条:
Geographic uses

In English most cities and countries never take the definite article, but there are many that do. It is commonly used with many country names that derive from names of island groups (the Philippines), mountain ranges (the Lebanon), deserts (the Sudan), seas, rivers and geographic regions (the Middle East). Such use is declining, but for some countries it remains common. Since the independence of Ukraine (or the Ukraine), most style guides have advised dropping the article, in part because the Ukrainian Government was concerned about a similar issue involving prepositions. Another example is Argentina, which is now more usual than 'the Argentine', which is old fashioned, although others continue, such as The Bronx and The Hague.

The definite article is always used for countries whose names are descriptions of the form of the state rather than being purely geographical; for example, the United States, the Soviet Union, and the Czech Republic.

The U.S. Department of State and the CIA World Factbook show the definite article with only two countries: The Bahamas and The Gambia. Although in title, these references do not include the definite article for the Netherlands, in the text description the name of the country is never used without it.

THESAUR.AMER.SEPTENT.SIGIL.
只看该作者 15 发表于: 2012-08-26
the Ukraine  是苏联时期习惯叫法
Пекинский Лесной Университет~
只看该作者 16 发表于: 2012-08-26
回 杰落清东 的帖子
杰落清东:the Ukraine  是苏联时期习惯叫法 (2012-08-26 20:48) 

杰落

想你了 :")
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